bioshockfandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Fontaine's Department Store (Business)
This uneeded extra article is still here after almost a month. It should have been erased a while ago, since its just misleading to the actual article.Evans0305 (talk) 22:04, December 11, 2013 (UTC) I second the motion. Unownshipper (talk) 22:13, December 11, 2013 (UTC) This page really needs to be deleted soon AndyRyan (talk) 16:04, January 14, 2014 (UTC) Smell of Death : The smell of corpses. Not year old ones (or somehow 8 year old ones in BS2) -- Nice recent ones in 'Fontaines Department Store' Booker should have made a comment on arriving . Its only been a few months at most the Splicers have been killing each other. The huge rediculous interior volumes of the place cant absorb the smell of all those corpses we see everywhere. Elizabeth going off into a corner to vomit might have been an interesting scene and then not looking so chippy from then on. Testxyz (talk) 11:34, December 12, 2013 (UTC) Why is there Fontaine Department Store The "problem" is that there are 2 pages on this wiki named Fontaine Department Store & Fontaine's Department Store. is there a reason theres 2 or? personaly I think that Fontaine's Department Store has more information. Shacob (talk) 21:51, December 16, 2013 (UTC) :Renamed this page from "Fontaine Department Store" to "Fontaine's." Now this page can be devoted to the business rather than an unnecessary extra page for Fontaine's Department Store. :Unownshipper (talk) 03:20, February 9, 2014 (UTC) ::"Fontaine's" and "Fontaine's Department Store" are the same thing, I don't see the point of having those two pages if not bringing unnecessary confusion. If the main building has a name then it would make it easier to separate it from the Housewares department, like Outer and Inner Persephone. Hopefully March will bring more answers on the layout of the place. ::Pauolo (talk) 10:58, February 9, 2014 (UTC) ::There's another problem: try searching for "Fontaine's" in the search bar. The page's name will not pop up because there are other pages which names start with "Fontaine's" (Fontaine's Army, Fontaine's Breakup, Fontaine's Legacy, etc...), hence making this page hard to reach. ::Pauolo (talk) 13:35, February 9, 2014 (UTC) :::They are not the same. :::Fontaine's is the name of the business (like Macy's or Bloomingdale's), Fontaine's Department Store is just one of the 3 buildings (the center one). In fact, in advertisements around Rapture, the place is alwaye listed as "Fontaine's" not "Fontaine's Department Store." :::This is just an article for the business, like the Fontaine Futuristics (Level) and Fontaine Futuristics (Business). This is meant to correct the misconception that the whole thing is "Fontaine's Department Store." :::As for the searching problem, that's a bit of a moot point. It's already hard to search for anything that begins with F, O, N, and T since so much is named after him (narcassistic ass). Give it time, the more often an item is searched, the more it rises to the top of the bar among similar results. the level "Fontaine Futuristics" used to be the first thing that showed up, now it's "Fontaine's Department Store." :::Unownshipper (talk) 08:41, February 10, 2014 (UTC) :::Are they supposed to be a seperate business ? "Housewares" sounds like just a department of the 'Depatrment Store". If its being a seperate building, I recall Sears Automotive departments were often a seperate building from the main one. Yes the whole places/businesses proper title probably should be 'Fontaines' (Like "Sears") ::: 08:50, February 10, 2014 (UTC) Seriously, there is no point in keeping this page. Fontaine's is written in both the main building and the Housewares tower in both DLC, which mean it's the short name of Fontaine's Department Store. Also, the full name is written on the blueprints of Housewares in Burial at Sea 2, confirming the whole business' name. We should delete this page instead of encouraging people to improve it. /: Pauolo (talk) 10:50, May 9, 2014 (UTC) Sunk to bottom of sea ??? In that picture of Fontaine's store diorama the two outbuildings ARENT floating?? Stand on the sea bottom? SO If they are permanant then why can you still go into them in the scenario if the main part of the store was allegedly "sunk to the bottom of the sea" ??? Where exactly does it say that ("sunk") was actually done ? STUPID! STUPID! STUPID! Annoyed...oh so very annoyed. I totally imagined that in Burial at Sea - Episode 2, Elizabeth would hop the tram over to the unknown third building from episode one and we'd learn that it was the "Recreation" building. Well I guess we all know what happens when you assume. Instead, Elizabeth just travels deeper into Housewares. What a waste of a building. On top of all that, what an illogical location to put places like Ryan the Lion Preparatory Academy, Cupid's Arrow, and Bathyspheres DeLuxe (none of which fir the "Housewares" category). No, none of this effects the story, but I guess I just expect so much from the BioShock franchise that I find this sort of thing to be both illogical and lazy. Rant over. I feel better now. Unownshipper (talk) 07:58, April 4, 2014 (UTC) Don't forget that the housewares building itself is really thin and tall but the entire level is spread out horizonatally for some reason. Was it really that hard to put each department on top of each other and have them seperated by stairs and elevators as it should be? 18:11, April 4, 2014 (UTC) - I'm also really disappointed in that decision, but while we're at it, what could the third building be for? The only thing I can think of is food or some sort of hobby equipment section. --Shacob (talk) 19:11, August 28, 2014 (UTC) : Mmmm, my best guest, since the main is department store for clothing and restaurants, and then housewares is home products, electronics as well as restaurants, maybe Hardware is the other department? For people who's business revolves around construction or building crafts (antiques, home renovation, furniture, even clothes materials) and maybe includes a hobby shop equipment place as well? Tricksteroffools (talk) 19:56, August 28, 2014 (UTC) ::Like I said, I assumed it was the "Recreation" Department. Picture it: a sports eqipment and clothing section (maybe even some kind of fitness center to contrast Rapture on Ice), the hardware department Tricksteroffools mentioned, a books, music, and film department (instead of an erotic store next to a daycare in a house ware building), different stores that sell luggage, furniture, odds and ends, etc. ::Unownshipper (talk) 23:11, August 28, 2014 (UTC) When was Fontaines supposed to have been 'sunk' ? Sally and a Big Daddy are roaming around inside, which might contradict the dates of all the harvesting and protector program stuff and some of those dates Suchong interacted with Fink etc All a little too Grandiose - overflow from Infinite : Way too overdone, much like Columbia. There just isn't that much money available in Rapture for this kind of stuff to be bought using the profits of the ADAM production - (and sales minus the expenses equals profits - making it far less money - worse if Fontaine's ADAM business had competition) . Population of 20000 people just dont have the disposable income of this magnitude, or make a big enough user market, besides the limited ADAM production, and the few years it operated). Entire new buildings with so much fancy accouterments, built alongside all the other new Fontaine businesses shown (ontop of the ones we heard of in BS1/BS2) which absorbed alot of money. Capone had far more income and didnt build such buildings. Wastage ontop of that - those huge interiors (even more extravagant expenses) that you only see in the real world (even today) on interiors of major stores that have millions of customers. The original Rapture had a certain feel which is no longer there in this DLC. :Agreed. This is too "go big or go home." BioShock 2 also had a problem of making spaces unnecessarily spacious (rooms in Pauper's Drop (Level) are too large to be tenemants), but this is far worse. It's like all the claustrophobia and confined living aspect was forgotten. :Unownshipper (talk) 06:51, June 8, 2014 (UTC) ::This is perhaps too big yes, but the claustrophobic feeling of the maps from the first game was more due to development restraints and the limits in size the maps had back in 2005-2007. In fact, BioShock 2 had more realistic maps imho. Also considering that Fontaine Futuristics was not just about the genetic market, I see the department store more as a showcase of its legal success and its many products (the Plasmid department is a single wing after all), and a way to publicly mock the all-mighty Ryan Industries (which also means the parallel to Capone is completely unrelated). But the fact that it has a structural particularity not seen on any other parts of Rapture (the floating thing, even if yes again it isn't realist at all), that building was probably quite recent compared to the rest, maybe built in 1957-1958, and Fontaine probably did not finished paying for it yet, because it sure could have cost more than the business' headquarters from Bio2. Pauolo (talk) 13:00, June 8, 2014 (UTC) :The rooms in Sinclair Deluxe often had walls blasted out between multiple rooms (making them seem bigger as we went thru them AND it wasnt a tenemant (or meant to be one) if you look at the room quality/arrangement - its more like a rent by the month hotel (and not really a cram-in-as-many-as-you-can pattern ... Motel 6 rooms are smaller). Designed to still be cheaper than the majority of ordinary housing in Rapture perhaps (to meet the market Sinclair intended and possibly built taking advantage of lowered costs because of the City Construction ending) ::I wasn't referring to the Deluxe specifically. I was thinking of the apartment off the Skid Row market and thinking of how unnecessarily large and wide the glass tunnels (the ones connecting different buildings) are compared to how they are in BioShock. ::Unownshipper (talk) 22:55, June 8, 2014 (UTC) ::All one of them... Though there are various windows that indicate there should have been more. That one is more like for people who live above their business, instead of being a rented room (which yes they could have fit several of those in the same space). The space inside that level's structure actually has room for at least 10 small apartments (incl 2 floors ... behind all the blank walls). If the level was redeveloped (adding businesses etc..) by Sinclair he wouldnt want competition for the Deluxe though... "The department store consists of a set of three floating buildings" Is the second picture supposed to represent the buildings actual structure? If so then its not 3 floating buildings as the two side ones obviously touch the seabed and appear to be imbedded in it and are anchoring the third central building which appears to be floating. Sorta conflicts with the 'sunk' story, and maybe the 'float up to reattach' via quantum particle thingee (did it wrench free of its tiedowns, etc...) 14:00, May 5, 2015 (UTC) :You mean the model should have been floating in mid-air? It actually defies the laws of gravity as it is now. :D :Still yes, I thought of anchoring too when I first saw the model. That way the buildings would be lightly floating up if set loose (I'm not much fond of physics so I leave the maths to Archimedes). I'm not sure if high pressure affects buoyancy, but if that's the case then the particle has its use. Also I don't think we can see if it had been re-anchored, the bottom of the trench where it lies is too dark (and possibly not too deep) to see. :Btw, this has nothing to do with this but you should avoid using rich text editor on the wiki. It kind of mess up the source editing by adding unnecessary templates for formating. I usually remove them myself when you post a comment to avoid the page looking like a rainbow (color coding is a recent feature of wikia). Pauolo (talk) 14:37, May 5, 2015 (UTC) :I think the formating directives start happening when you do a cut-n-paste from part of the wiki. Ive had lots of problems on my Wiki with the editing seemingly doing (reformatting) whatever it feels like, changing what it looks like/paragraphing/spacing after saving and even mutating on reediting. :Anyway, the central building is free floating in water (structure weighs less than the water it displaces - totally possible with all the air spaces inside), but would need to be anchored/tied down - to not just hold it in place but to keep it from swaying in currents (one of the online Infinite detractors mentioned floating city problematic/unihabitable because of constant motion sickness of population....) The high depth pressure doesnt affect because liquid water doesnt compress. The 2 other buildings seem planted (serving as anchors) and there would need to be additional guywires in other directions to stop/dampen swaying/tilting. Neutral buoyancy is hard (freefloating submarines/bathyspheres are where its critical) but unneeded here because of the anchoring (at least as illustrated that pix). Once you get rid of that anchoring (as in 'sunk' or with the BaS ending QM particle floating it up it becomes unstable - probably everything shaken fromm the neat shelves in all the l;urching... (I wont go into all the problems with the quantum stuff -- just a convenient plot gimmick alluding back to Elizabeths Columbia universe ... its DLC). :If Fontaines had been sunk (literally vs figuratively) then all the utilities would need to be (expensively and time-consumingly) rebuilt to that new spot, or the place would very soon be a "cold dark wet tomb". So in my logical universe it was just isolated and temporary (OR better it would be some well prepared warehouse in the cheap part of town). :BTW sunk alot deeper and it would exceed the building overengineering factors (add 14 lb/sqin per atmosphere - every ~30 feet deeper) and implode. I know - its a game, but connection to reality is supposed to make the sci-fi weird stuff that much more shocking/imaginable. : 03:00, May 6, 2015 (UTC) ::I usually only copy from editing pages, it's a safer method. ::The floating buildings of Columbia had hot air ballons, propellers and heat sources in addition to the particle unaffected by gravity. I don't know much of air sickness, but perhaps that helped maintain the large chunks' stability in mid-air. ::Good analysis on Fontaine's situation. The twin towers being anchors isn't too far-fetched and they do seem to be lower than the main building on the model while being probably lighter. The place being a temporary prison is a good idea too and would explain why it was rushed. The place would have eventually collapsed in a few months, giving Ryan's detractors in Rapture something to accuse him of cruelty, unless he was building a proper prison in parallel. I don't trust much Booker in the DLC on what he says about the city and Ryan, he is just too cynical. ::And I just realized, how did that tower rose to Rapture if it was still attached to the main building, at least from the metro and pneumo cables? That particle would have been powerful enough to bring it to the surface of the ocean too. Pauolo (talk) 13:33, May 8, 2015 (UTC) ::- ::Too much analysis of how the particles did stuff is probably futile, as it did whatever the plot needed. One particle or many ... how strong, the supposedly 'fixed' altitude of Columbia - Fontaines is now changing 'atlitude', how did Elizabeth steered it (Fontaines) to match back up to where it had previously been (and all gets sealed up), tall and narrow wasnt how Housewares looked on its inside, etc... (They could/should have had it go to the surface (or heh, to 30000 feet into air ... oops) but with Atlas escaping somehow first - a UFO sighted in 1959). ::The airsickness would be from constant vibrations and swaying in winds at whatever altitude - think of being on an airliner for the rest of your life (they try to dampen things there on airliners but never quite eliminate it all). Air pressure at 20-30K feet is real low (and cold) too, so they ignored alot of things. :: 13:36, May 9, 2015 (UTC) :::Nay, she didn't steer it, it rose up in a vertical trajectory, distant enough from the mines so that bathyspheres could reach it safely. What a sight it would have been if the building just popped up at the surface. :D :::Well I was thinking of some machinery on each "island" to attenuate the effects of air sickness, but that can only be possible with computer devices (think control charts 30 or 40 years before they were invented). Pauolo (talk) 06:11, May 11, 2015 (UTC) :::Some kind of control, even just to raise it (and when did Elizabeth become a Quantum Particle Engineer/Mechanic anyway??) - heh IF it had hit any mines as it started to rise... So in that uncontrolled ascent another "Locked Down" Bathysphere maneuvered to a working Dock (I forget how Cohen managed Booker&Liz to originally get there THROUGH the mines, and it is amazing some Splicer hadn't noticed and made off with it as soon as they arrived) and then got Atlas and sufficient of his cronies out to then carry out the Attacks. AND Ryan wasnt put on alert by the escape incident (allowing mass slaughter at a virtually unprotected big party of VIPs). Just too much of a knot, too much happening in so short a time (too much the original story depending on it being normal - people in such a small place as Rapture hear things to have all this not setting off alarms everywhere). Such a mess, Atlas should have just gone to Paris. ::: 08:31, May 11, 2015 (UTC) :::: , I can't tell if you're intentionally trying to be flippant or not (though that is how it comes off). The line "The department store consists of a set of three floating buildings, now turned into a prison and isolated from the city." refers to the buildings as they currently appear in the events of Burial at Sea - Episode 1 and Burial at Sea - Episode 2. ::::It could very well be (and most likely was) that when the business was still in operation, two or even all three of the buildings were anchored to the seabed for pretty obvious reasons. However, during the course of these games they appear to be floating judging by the how they move during the Bathyspheres arrival at the Department Store. ::::Unownshipper (talk) 00:30, May 14, 2015 (UTC) :::::I wasn't going to change the article, just saying, as there's not much proof that the building was once anchored if not for the model display seen in both episodes. Still it's interesting to discuss about it from a realistic point of view. Pauolo (talk) 11:57, May 14, 2015 (UTC) The third building I tried noclipping and I dug out the files. All of the department store signs are grouped in Dept_genSigns and have generic names. There are three "ring" signs labeled as Dept_genSign_Ring3096, Dept_genSign_Ring3096b, Dept_genSign_Ring3096c. The first two read Fontaine's Department Store and Electronics. The third is for Home Goods, Ladieswear, Menswear, and Appliances. The screenshot above shows the "WEAR" lettering. This quick screenshot from the back shows "HOME GOODS". http://i.imgur.com/FWoXqPF.jpg These are the models http://imgur.com/a/JtjXy The third building's ring sign is not lit, but should it be its name? UpgradeTech (talk) 01:59, July 4, 2016 (UTC) : It's hard to say. Obviously Ladieswear, Menswear, and Appliances wouldn't be in the third building, But Home Goods is never seen anywhere else. Maybe it should just be put in the behind the scenes for now. Night at the Kashmir (talk) 23:09, July 15, 2016 (UTC) ::It's hard to say. All of this appears to be re-used/unused assets, and at this point it's impossible to say if this is what the store was meant to be named. Because it's unlit and never mentioned by the characters in the game, it seems that we'll never get official confirmation. For now, Night at the Kashmir's suggestion seems to be the best option. ::Unownshipper (talk) 23:18, July 17, 2016 (UTC)